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  • cartelmike 17:47 on March 18, 2014 Permalink | Reply
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    David Moyes, Manchester United, History and Common Sense. 

    Image

    I’ll start with a cliché. Silly season.

    Previously level-headed United bloggers/journalists/fans have quite literally lost their marbles in recent weeks.

    Sure, nobody likes losing, but the recent reactions to defeats pretty much gives license to opposing fans to grinningly nod and congratulate themselves with a “I knew it”. All United fans are spoilt, dependent, fair-weather creatures who simply can’t understand it when things just don’t go their way.

    Have a look at the final league table from 2011/2012 . Have a look at who finished in 6th, 25 points off the top. It happens. Its transition. Its change. It DOES NOT necessarily call for doom laden proclamations involving Graeme Souness.

    Think about your day job.

    Think about the company you work for, who you might manage, or who you might report to.

    Now think about your employer’s biggest competitive rival. A rival that has steamrolled competition for two decades.

    Now think about going to work there, and being tasked with not just stamping your authority on a previously plutocratic sovereignty ($hit, whatever term you want to describe one trophy wealthy, peerless, completely controlling individual’s empire) and to flourish immediately.

    It’s the one dreadful pundit cliché that stands. The impossible job.

    And now let’s think about Ferguson himself. Was he born brilliant? Did he learn to be brilliant? Was the Aberdeen success a more comfortable pill to swallow two years into his disastrous United early years? Did that give him the time with the fans? Yes, a different era, different pressures, but im talking about the training required for the individual to guarantee some kind of longevity.

    What does his dismal start tell you? He won a European trophy with Aberdeen? He usurped the Old Firm? Why the hell couldn’t he do better than 15th place, three years into his job!???

    Lets look at that final table in 1989/1990. United were five points off relegation. So. What can we read into this? Sure, Moyes inherited a squad of Champions, but we all know its frailties, and don’t get me started on the performances of the elderly members of the current back-four… but Ferguson kept his job and was backed. And don’t bring up the FA Cup win, or Mark Robins.

    Facts are facts, after three years Ferguson got everything wrong. Finishing 13th, and five points off relegation was disastrous. I remember it.

    What happened next? The board stuck with him, whilst also allowing him to splash out a then huge amount of cash on Wallace, Pallister, Ince and Webb. And finally it all turned around.

    So what am I trying to say here? Essentially, it’s not about David Moyes individually, it’s about the culture of the club. If we want Manchester United to be in genuine trophy contention, yearly, in these modern times, then we have to follow the sack/hire/sack model of City and Chelsea. Fact. And even then you can’t guard against a Chelsea final standing in 2011/12.

    Or, we stick to our beliefs. And stick with our man. And not trot out the ubiquitous “I can’t find one single positive since Moyes has been here” line. OF COURSE YOU CAN’T. YOU’RE NOT PRIVILEGED TO BE BEHIND THE SCENES EVERY DAY. I’d love to hear the bloggers/influencers comments on Ferguson’s mid-season 15th in 1989.

    I’m sure there were a ton of positives there too….

    This isn’t a DAVID MOYES IS THE RIGHT MAN, WE MUST STICK WITH HIM article. It’s a bigger picture than that. It’s not about him. It’s about a belief in prolonged success.

    Clearly 87% of you want shot of him, and you’re entitled to that, but if he gets sacked before he has the chance to mobilise a beast of a company/structure like Manchester United, then Jurgen Klopp will be no different. And if Moyes is sacked, and Klopp (or anyone else) arrives, it’s too late then. The precedent is set. United are then one of those clubs, and you can kiss goodbye to such an incredible history .

    Let’s try to ignore the modern-day arrogance of the Twitterati. They don’t know better than Moyes. If they did, they’d be millionaires running football clubs, not writing about them. There’s an inherent sociological reason as to why it will take Ferguson’s successor time.  That’s a fact born outside of a chosen individual. To continue Ferguson’s work, and to even begin to make the current structure remain in place, we HAVE to have continuity.

    That’s continuity in method, work and tradition.

    Allow me to be one of the 13%. I genuinely believe it’s better to have a perceived “catastrophe” of 7th place for a couple of years if it continues everything Ferguson fought so hard for.

    Glory hunting short-termism is the realm of the Sheik and the Oligarch. They can keep it.

     
    • Soccerisma 18:02 on March 18, 2014 Permalink | Reply

      Valid points but you have got to agree that he deserves hell lot of blame as well.
      Yes the squad needs reinforcements but come on, with players like Rvp, Rooney, Januzaj and Mata, Moyes makes em play like Stoke with little or no link up play.
      Then again, splashed a record sum to sign Mata only to play him out-wide knowing that he does not offer any threatening pace.
      Doubt he can prove the doubters wrong but we shall see.

    • cartelmike 18:23 on March 18, 2014 Permalink | Reply

      He’s just started to work with them. A whole new squad of 30 odd players. He’s barely started. We can’t patronise him yet. You think he doesnt realise what Mata’s best position is? Do people genuinely think that? He’ll know more about football than we ever will. Again, this isbnt an article about him being the right choice, or the right man necessarily, its bigger than that.

      • Howard Lawson 21:25 on March 18, 2014 Permalink | Reply

        Without any doubt the most imbecilic mail I have ever read

        What you are saying is ‘ignore all the facts that counter my logic’
        ‘Believe me when i tell you that there are positives you can not see’

        This is the best part
        ‘Again, this isbnt(sic) an article about him being the right choice, or the right man necessarily, its bigger than that.’
        OOHH! LOOK HOW IMPORTANT MY ARTICLE IS IT’S BIGGER THAN ALL THE OTHER ARTICLES
        Your arrogance is matched by your stupidity. It also matches your ‘keyboard skills’

        Are you American?

        Do not tell me who I can and cannot patronise! He has been working with the players for 9 months,he has tried all available formations and line ups and the outcome is always the same. Garbage!!
        Even you can not be that stupid.(Or maybe, after reading your ludicrous article, you are)

        What does this answer mean in the normal world?
        ‘i havent said Moyes is the right person? Who can know who the right person is?’

        Wonderful grasp of punctuation. I can’t see the point of writing an article when you appear to have difficulty putting a sentence together in the English Language.
        Don’t know which I find more amusing your bizarre ‘logic’ or your command of what I presume is your native tongue.
        Moyes last weekend!! Dead man walking!! The champagne is on ice

    • Sack davd moyes 18:56 on March 18, 2014 Permalink | Reply

      U fail to provide any reasons to support your case that moyes is the right person for united and will be able to turn it around.

      No one can, the united pr team would have pounced on it if there was one. Stop pandering to tradition and use simple logic.

      • cartelmike 19:20 on March 18, 2014 Permalink | Reply

        i havent said Moyes is the right person? Who can know who the right person is?

    • JC 19:13 on March 18, 2014 Permalink | Reply

      I so respect this attitude, Cartelmike. In each circumstance that we as football fans see other clubs summarily sacking managers everyone is quick to point out stupid they are, what a kneejerk reaction it is, etc. How many times have you heard that ‘managers need time’? And yet even after a few months Moyes was facing huge scrutiny about whether he was up to the job. Fair enough, it’s a huge job. I’m an Everton fan and I loved the Moyesiah. I get the fact that not everyone will but he’s passionate, determined, hardworking and 100% committed to the job in hand.
      He may end up being the wrong man for the job but at least give him ONE SEASON. It’s unlikely you’ll win the Premiership, maybe you won’t even qualify for Champions League. But Man Utd are bigger than that. You have principles and you’re not Chelsea or City or Spurs. You’re Man Utd.

    • Mike 20:11 on March 18, 2014 Permalink | Reply

      I get your point, but what is it that few seem to understand that history easily repeats itself? I am privileged to be old enough to have supported and watch united with Charlton, Law, Best and a whole host of other heroes at the helm. Who remembers or have read about Utd’s 1968 triumph in Europe, followed by a steep decline and 20 years in the wilderness. What did I learn from that is that Sir Alex Ferguson learned nothing despite all his successes…and 1. You cannot reply on ageing heroes. Loyalty doesn’t stop the legs weakening and skills declining. 2. You must get reinforcements before the heroes need zimmer frames. I admire Ferguson for his unparalleled successes, but he must take significant blame for the weak midfield and ageing defence. He also allowed the best young midfielder (Pogba) to leave because of his pride and arrogance, and towards the end made some strange transfer decisions. So it’s not all on Moyes. Moyes picked up a squad well past it’s best, but Moyes, Fergies choice is like Wilf McGuiness (Busby’s personal choice), and is like a deer in the headlights with average back room management, poor tactical choices, and strategy that is suspect from the start, who doesn’t appear to understand United’s legacy of attacking football, use of younger players, or relegating non-performers to the reserves! He also is overwhelmed by the magnitude of the Manchester United brand

      Moyes was never the right choice. That being said, the current players earn lots of money, and they need to stop sulking and get some passion and fire into their games and represent United…stop playing like a bunch of schoolboys, or get the hell out. I am so angry and upset with some of the teams performances this year, I am nearly ready to burst. If you lose boys…ffs do it with some pride and passion.

      Do I think Moyes will last? No I don’t. He is a competent mid-table manager, with a mid-table mentality and I don’t think he can change his management style enough to deal with the numbers and needs of top, top players that United will eventually have and get the best out of them. If I am wrong I will hold my hand up…but I’m not holding my breath!!

  • cartelmike 19:33 on October 7, 2013 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: Adnan Januzaj, , Ravel Morrision   

    Januzaj To Leave United? – Why MUFC Must Not Let This Happen… 

    januzajpogba

    This past weekend felt like a pivotal weekend for many reasons, but the Adnan Januzaj debut creates the most perplexing and worrying issue of all.

    He scored two great goals on his full debut. During the very same weekend Ravel Morrison scored a wonder goal his manager labelled ‘genius’ and Paul Pogba scores the winner in the Turin derby, amid claims they should build their entire team around him.

    I wrote this article on this very blog over two years ago. My excitement palpable. Only for my excitement to wither and die in the worst way of all. Individual cases are always incomparable, and whilst Morrison’s behaviour was the main issue in his case, the Pogba precedent is alltogether more concerning. Even if recent news says otherwise, we all know Pogba’s agent was hawking him around to the highest bidder. The details of each case can be read into in far greater detail in this brilliant article, but if you’re on the board of a successful business its your job to notice patterns. And regardless of cases, this cant become a pattern for Manchester United.

    So where do we begin? What are we to believe? (More …)

     
    • Rob B 19:53 on October 7, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      Excellent article, but I do think a tad overcooked. The Pogba situation was a mess, and was an orchestrated attempt to get him to Italy for well over a year – hence why Fergie then limited his first team opportunities, after proclaiming months before he would play him. That situation you would expect taught United a lesson, but my summary is this: If a player wishes to leave (as Pogba did) you cant stop them. You can offer them the earth in wages, but these offers can not be infinite. I do not think money will be the question in this Adnan deal. Yes, his agent is looking for the best deal, but his Dad seems to be the one pulling the strings behind the scenes. Unlike Pogba, I think if Moyes shows faith in Adnan, gives him a very competitive wage, then he will sign up and continue his development at United. Fans need to step away from this constant doom-mongering. It does my head in. Ultimately I would be soooo gutted if Adnan left, but it wouldnt make me believe that United hadnt moved heaven and earth to keep him. The Glazers know he is going to be worth upwards of £50m very soon, so they wont shirk on the finances to keep him, which are small compared to the rewards they could reap from him in the very near future. We will do very well to keep the lad for the 6 years that we kept Ronaldo. It is all market driven.

    • ChrisW 21:28 on October 7, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      Your calculations are a bit out. £40k a week is £2m year. So it would take 14 years to reach the amount we paid for Fellaini.

      It’s very hard for us to lose with Adnan whatever we offer him. If he leaves in a few years time his transfer fee will probably pay for his wages many times over and I think the club understands this. They understood it with Pogba too but that wasn’t primarily about money. Pogba was already committed to Juventus after getting fed up with waiting for a chance at United. That won’t happen with Januzaj.

  • cartelmike 20:52 on July 29, 2011 Permalink | Reply  

    MUFC: What the close season means for the new season. More of the same. 

    Are we all refreshed?

    Are we all ready to step back on to the rollercoaster?

    With the frequency and full coverage of the pre season friendlies we’ve barely had a chance to take breath since the Champions League final, but here we are, a week away from the Communitable Charitee Shield (does anyone know what its called these days?) and the new season.

    So whats happened?

    Not a lot to be honest. Here’s my quick appraisal of how the following season may turn out.

    United:

    Nobody is in any doubt about the raw talent of Jones and De Gea. Jones’ disciplined display at right back last week gave us all a surprise. The boy looks a bona fide United legend in the making. A great bit of business, and one of those new signings you just know is going to work out. Class. Coupled with Smalling’s excellent start, the defensive injury cover horror stories from two seasons ago will be diminished. Defence is our strongest area, no question. De Gea is a slight worry. He’s still a kid, and if there’s one thing the Premier League proves its that experienced keepers do best. Yes, there’s the occasional Casillas, and yes De Gea is a phenomenally talented shot stopper, but there’s a worry in throwing this boy into the rigours of regular Premier League games. My main concerns are his ability to deal with crosses. In Spain, keepers simply do not have to worry about this. They dont play that way. On the 10th & 24th September, we play Bolton & Stoke. THESE games are the test for De Gea. These are the games where vital points are gained and lost.

    Ashley Young is a strange one for sure. The Dwight Yorke parallels are there for all to see, and not just the Villa connection. The unexpected arrival of a player not seen as particularly stratospheric, almost journeyman, into a position where we seem to have many options already. We all trust in Fergie. Is this a signing for the English players numbers? Is this a signing for through the middle of the park? Is this a signing because of his excellent displays against United in the past? He has a lot to prove, as 99% of United fans would want Nani & Valencia to start ahead of him. As would i.

    All in all, a great set of signings, added to a young winning squad. And surely this is the year that the winning FA Youth Cup team get their chance to graduate to at least the Carling Cup. There are question marks as to the centre of our midfield, but these are only question marks with relevance to Barcelona. Anderson, Giggs, Carrick and Fletcher allow Rooney to be the player he’s best at being. And with Chicharito as his continued outlet it’ll be another great season for Rooney. There seemed to be a lot of negativity around United last season, but in agreement with Scholesy, i genuinely believe we’ve never had a squad this good. We’re bursting with talent. We’ve another great chance of a lot of silverware this year.

    Chelsea:

    Having blown £70m in January, there’s not been a great deal forthcoming from the team who we expected to overhaul their ageing superstars.  Ive watched their pre season games, and its not looking particularly cohesive. Ramires is looking like a great player, and whilst Luiz had a good start, his deficiencies were laid bare too. I made cash on predicting them going for Villas Boas, and ive also laid cash (6-1) on him being out of a job come the end of the season.  Its a very tough ask managing Chelsea at the best of times. But trying to overhaul a squad whilst keeping the instant success cravings of the owner at bay is an impossible task. They’ll push close once again, but i cant see them winning the PL or the CL.

    Arsenal:

    I’m so bored of hearing Wenger talk about his “young team”. He’s had a young team for seven years now. Is it sheer stubborness that stops him buying the dogmatic, tough, “British” players his talented spine needs? If Tony Adams was an Aston Villa player now, and they quoted Arsenal £10m, we all know Wenger wouldnt sign him. What has he done this pre season? Sign another talented yet dimunitve goalscorer in Gervinho. If they do land Samba of Cahill or Mertesacker then perhaps they could challenge. But its far more likley theyll land more of the same in Mata, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Hazard.

    Liverpool:

    Its “their year” again right? Isnt it always? Im seeing quotes saying they’ll be serious challengers. Not a hope just yet. Dalglish has returned to his tried and trusted method of horribly inflating the transfer fees of British talent like he did at Blackburn. In excess of £70m on Henderson, Downing and Carroll is nothing short of scandalous. Adam will be a good signing, and Suarez a superstar, but they’re 15 points off the pace still. I’m amazed there hasn’t been a top defender added to the ranks, but there’s time yet. They’ll certainly improve on last year’s dire performance. Much like United, they will not worry about a set midfield, and change regularly to accommodate the amount of players they have for the middle of the park. Meireles, Gerrard, Lucas, Henderson, Maxi, Kuyt, Downing, Adam, Spearing, Poulson, Cole, Shelvey…. a fair few to keep happy there!

    All in all, Dalglish has spent £100m of John Henry’s money in his short time at the helm. Time will tell what sort of owner he is, and whether patience is one of his business virtues.

    City:

    Last but not least. It seems to be forgotten that City actually finished joint second last season. Coming strong towards the end and matching Chelsea’s 71 points. They’re not going to get worse are they? You could argue Chelsea are stagnating whilst City are very much on the up. Sure their scattergun transfer policy has produced flops (Dzeko, Adebayor etc), inconsistent nutters (Balotelli) and inspired signings (Tevez, De Jong, Kompany, even the maligned Yaya Toure), and it shows no sign of abating. Will Tevez go? Will Aguero hit the ground running? Can Balotelli come good? Is Barry really that rubbish?

    It seems that Mancini has appeased the owners, and that stability can only help. Winning the FA Cup will help also. But is there a sustained challenge in a perceived bunch of mercenaries? With Aguero now on board, and the “fantasy” superstar box ticked as insurance against a departing Tevez, will Mancini’s defensive philosophy be allowed to continue? Solid for sure, but im just not sure there’s enough goals in the team to win enough points for the title.

    In conclusion, and of course you’d expect a United blogger/writer to back his own team, i can see this season being another title for United. We won it by nine points last year, and nothing has happened in the close season so far to make me think we wont win it by nine points again. Bring it on.

     
  • cartelmike 14:25 on April 7, 2011 Permalink | Reply  

    TF Chronicles: ‘Manchester United are not very good this season…’ 

    Well, if you listen to the press we’re not are we ?
    Apparently our performances are rubbish this season.
    We’re “just doing enough” in games.
    We haven’t really “clicked” yet.

    Apparently if Arsenal had bothered to keep their bottle, or if Chelsea had maintained their early season form then we would be far off the top of the table.

    Apparently this is the poorest Manchester United team for a long time.

    Apparently we’re only half the team now that we no longer have Ronaldo, Tevez and an elderly Scholes.

    Apparently the Glazers not reinvesting the Ronaldo cash on ready made superstars has rendered us a bit rubbish.

    Of all the knee jerk ABU reactions we’ve all grown used to, its the notion that we’re not very good that has bugged me the most this season. Objectivity is a crucial requirement for a football connoisseur, and statistics are the connoisseur’s weapon of choice.

    So, as we sit on the edge of the Champions League semi finals (again), the FA Cup semi final, and are seven points clear at the top of the table with seven games to go, lets have a little appraisal shall we ?

    We’ve won the most games in the league.
    We’ve scored the most goals in the league.
    We have the top scorer in the league in Berbatov.
    We have three players in the top six goalscorers in the league.
    We have the top assist player in the league in Nani.
    Nani, with assists and goals combined is the most effective player in the league. (regardless of the dumbass PFA voting)
    We have won 14 out of 15 League home games this season.
    We have yet to concede an away goal in the Champions League.
    We’ve conceded one goal in the FA Cup.

    And then there’s the players. These players that are apparently not a golden generation, or a “great” United team. (More …)

     
    • Craig 16:29 on April 7, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      One Of the best articles I’ve read in a long time . Nothing but the truth backed up with proof . How much longer can these idiots blame other teams not playing well or bottling it . Face it we are doing well from doing what united do so well, which is perform consistently with a. Winning mentality drove into the players by sir alex . Excellant post mate again !

  • cartelmike 14:27 on March 21, 2011 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: ,   

    Mr Pogba and Mr Morrison. Your time at Manchester United has come! 

    We’re approaching our traditional squeaky bum time. Late March inevitably means scrapping for League points and the sharp end of the Champions League. This weekend has seen United steal a traditional late winner a la Steve Bruce or Federico Macheda. Its all looking promising that number 19 will indeed be delivered. Fraught opinion on Carrick’s form, Scholes’ retirement and future signings speculation are abundant.

    But this weekend, along with the weekend previous, also saw yet another example of why our future is rosy.

    I’m a firm believer in the Green & Gold campaign. I don’t want the Glazers at our club. I’ve not been to an OT game since the Champions League semi final against Arsenal. I refuse to line their pockets, but one thing i cant live without is my subscription to MUTV. And this subscription isn’t to listen to the Pravda style rantings of Paddy Crerand, but the chance to see the kids play. Every weekend.

    Since MUTV began screening youth games in the late 90′s its been nothing but a pleasure to watch the youthful exuberance on a Saturday morning. I genuinely get as much pleasure out of watching them as i do the first team. Sometimes a lot more. And for those steadfastly refusing to spend a fiver a month on MUTV, its the best fiver you’ll spend as a United fan.  I love proclaiming I’VE SEEN THE FUTURE when a youngster begins to dazzle. And i’m happy to admit i’ve been burnt a few times when ranting at friends who follow other teams that Giuseppe Rossi and Fabian Brandy will become United legends. I’ve not always got it right clearly… I’m now more aware of what it takes to be a Darren Fletcher and not a Chris Eagles. Talent is one thing, application, stamina and belief is an entirely different thing.

    Which brings me back on topic.

    This weekend, and the weekend previous, saw our two brightest youth hopes step up yet another level. (More …)

     
    • dan taylor 15:52 on March 21, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      having watched these 2 they definitely looks the part, the only problem is the already overcrowded midfield, bebe, obertan may go out on loan hargreaves maybe finished and scholes is quiet which suggests he may retire (hope not)which may find places for pogba and ravel, with douglas costa in the stands I can see him being bought too so we will have a young midfield in years to come

    • cartelmike 16:04 on March 21, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      **STOP THE PRESS ** ** EDIT **

      Ravel Morrison has just been sent off against Newcastle, and will now miss the FA Youth Cup semis with Chelsea. Gutted.

    • Fido 16:06 on March 21, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Are you serious about Morrison

    • Fido 16:16 on March 21, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      cartelmike, What Newcastle game are you talking about? Reserves?

    • janmetcalf 17:36 on March 21, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Cracking read that Mike, shame about Morrison’s attitude (red card today prime example) but I think if any club can get him to sort it out it’s us really. Only seen bits and pieces of Pogba but what you say about his physique is spot on, players like Rossi, Tosic etc who light up the reserves just dont have the pace, power and strength to be a real force in the pl. Pogba appears to have those bases covered, with the technical ability to boot, so I hope to see him feature in some carling cup matches next season.

    • moosa 21:23 on March 21, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      I totally agree with everything written in this article. especially that some times watching the youth team is more attractive then watching the first team and the point that the £5 spent a month is well worth it.. after watching pogba and morrison for the past two years i truly believe these 2 boys will make it into the first team sooner than later. pogba is ready, and it makes my blood boil when gibson, oberton, bebe and carrick get the chance and pogba and morrison havent yet… i was set in the away end at anfield and spotted morrison, tunniclife pogba along with you team manager paul mcgannis. i spent the whole 2nd half talking with morrison and let me tell you that the boy does not have an attittude problem, he came across shy and i asked him about his past and he told me it was a mistake he made when he was younger.. the press and other united forums have given fans incuding me a negative image about him… on the other hand i was saying to the youth team manager that pogba is ready and why has the gaffer not given him his chance yet and he replied by jokingly saying he was a lazy 5hit…But mark my words along with these 2 boys, davide petrucci who is slowly coming back and ryan tunnicliffe the future is bright!!!

    • Jack 23:23 on March 21, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      the thing is if pogba is good enough and considering our midfield its fairly shocking that his not had a sniff of a few minutes. he looks good but so have others in recent years but they all failed to make the grade.

    • John Bishop 00:58 on March 22, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Sorry to go off subject, but why as Tosic deemed not good enough for the 1st team when he didn’t even get many chances. I heard he did really well in the reserves, scoring some crackers and a hatrick. I’ve always wondered….

    • michael 12:12 on March 22, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      pogba and morrison are to play for the senior boys.they might even take part in the remaining games.for tosic he was just unfornate.

    • west derby red 14:59 on March 22, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      speaking as a liverpool fan I think its great when clubs can bring through young players. I worry about your finances under the Glazers. I worry about ours too because so far FSG have not spent one penny on the team. I wish both clubs could have british owners. Of course I don’t want you guys to get no 19 but if you do it will be well deserved and will give us something to chase

    • Alex McAbee 14:20 on March 25, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Fantastic article. You’ve stimulated my interest beyond the first-team and have me chomping at the bit to catch my first Utd youth / reserve match. I too pray that yours isn’t misplaced optimism, and that we will see these two youngsters garnering our 20th, 21st, and so on. Cheers!

    • cartelmike 09:20 on March 29, 2011 Permalink | Reply

    • cartelmike 08:23 on March 31, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      and a cracking video !
      http://www.megavideo.com/?v=L2PHYPVJ

  • cartelmike 16:14 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply  

    An MUFC study: Arsenal play the “best” football? Says who??? 

    I’m sure most United fans will feel irked by the constant barrage of Arsenal’s so called “great football”.

    I’ll begin with a disclaimer before I start a flame war with Gooner fans, that I completely respect Wenger’s choice of his own philosophy, and that they do what they do very well. But I’m sick to death of it being seen as the “best” and “greatest” way to play football.

    Because it isn’t.

    Its a choice, and no amount of media backslapping or self generated Wengerist smugness will change this.

    My patience finally snapped after their away win at Birmingham, where I had to endure radio phone in punters proclaiming that an Arsenal title win will be a “victory for footballing principles” and that they are some kind of shining light pouring scorn on everybody else’s approach to winning games.  Well, they’re not.

    Before I start, I could fill a whole other article about Arsenal hiding behind their so called “young” team, (Checked the ages of Arshavin, Van Persie, Eboue, Sagna, Rosicky etc lately?) or Wenger’s never-ending work in progress/ no silverware operation, but that would be churlish… (More …)

     
    • Doron 16:21 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      The only people who think it’s “the best” are Gooners, Sky and the BBC. Funny you posted this, I will go find a conversation I was having with my cousin last night and type it up…very relevant.

    • Franny 16:25 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Shame as Manure play football as boring as feck.

    • Sam 16:27 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      I agree with your point fundamentally that football is about winning and the team that wins plays the best football. However then you go on some whining littlw rant and i stopped reading. Arsenal play the most watchable football, can we just leave it at that?

      • Ben Dover 22:21 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        Sam, of course we can’t leave it with that… I prefer watching United play instead of Arsenal 365 days a year, because I love their style of playing. The tricky wingplayers and unpredictability amongst several others makes it the best football to watch for me :)

    • Doron 16:28 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      OK here we go….

      my cousin, in his 40s is a gooner, one of the more deluded ones, claims he hates fergie so much he sees nothing positive in anything he’s done…that deluded!!

      anyway i was having a fairly normal discussion with him about finances and spending under arsenal and i was saying how i think it’s one of wenger’s biggest flaws that he doesnt spend more (the money is available, i have a friend who works on arsenal’s accounts!!!) – he’s convinced himself and the fans that money doesnt exist!! I explained this to him earlier:

      “Wenger uses “there is no money” as an excuse, especially since the move to the Emirates – had a friend working on the Arsenal accounts. Arsenal budget incredibly conservatively. They budget to qualify for the CL once every 3 years. This means Arsenal are constantly coming in better than expected and hence there is a cash surplus. Wenger and Arsenal agreed that all that surplus goes straight to paying off the debts, all of it. Now if Wenger and Arsenal wanted to, they could say, well look, we’re coming on on budget every year, so we’re paying off the debt as we expect, actually quicker…so why not say put 50% of this surplus to the debt and put 50% towards transfers, that way we’re still paying off the debt quicker than we have forecasted. But no, Wenger has got it in his head that “there is no money” when the reality is THERE VERY MUCH IS! It’s part of this belief in youth thing and it’s very admirable etc but apart from a Carling Cup this year (presuming you win it) that’s all he’ll have to show for it. If he wasn’t so stubborn and I know you wont like it but if Arsenal weren’t so stuck up there own arses there could be money there available to add say one top quality player a year as well as some much needed good squad players and who knows, the club could have had more success.

      That said, he does generally buy well but also don’t forget, he didn’t exactly have to reinforce too much – he had a solid back four and keeper in place for some time as well as good players in other areas – there was little need for him to spend early on. And, he has spent big when he’s needed to on individuals, Bergkamp, Overmars and Wiltord to name a few were all expensive buys at the time – but did prove worth it…and of course like every manager there are plenty of bad signings too. He deserves a lot of praise for spending so little and keeping Arsenal just about competitive most seasons but I do think there is so much potential for more if he wasn’t so stubborn, especially now more than ever – i don’t expect you to agree with all of that…i for one think arsenal’s budgeting policy is ludicrous! Mind you that same friend was also on liverpool’s accounts, he said their policy was total opposite – they budgeted to get in the semi final of the CL every year the jokers!!!!!”

      Anywho we got on to discussing Wenger and I was saying although I dislike him, I have a lot of respect for him, I admire how he’s tried to play football in the past 4 years but feel that despite the fact it’ll probably win a carling cup this year, it has nothing to show for it…my cousin’s response was so confusing, he said he wasn’t bothered…he said he had more pride in the fact that, to quote him, “on our day we are the most graceful team in europe” – absolutely baffled me…he valued playing good football no matter if it won anything, over silverware! Firstly, Barca play the better football, but secondly, to have pride in thinking they play the most graceful football, to have pride in that, to care about that more than actually achieving anything just stunned me!

      He’s said to me before that United play boring football and he’d hate to watch United every week. Said that football is meant to entertain and only arsenal do that…it’s bizarre…that arsenal mindset is totally bizarre and it IS all wenger’s fault….arsenal never used to play like this, 10 year ago they used to get in your face and play good physical football but since wenger has been preaching about no money and no tackling the fans have jumped on it and decided that is the only way to play…and that it’s the best way of playing!

      Utterly bizarre, Wenger has proven that since he’s tried to play like that it wins nothing unless you have CLASS, WORLD CLASS players, like barca, which arsenal don’t have, plus the PL just isn’t suited to that type of football anyway

    • Doron 16:30 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Just to add one final thing, think it’s impossible to define what “the best” type of football is. Arsenal do play most consistently the most watchable type of football as someone else said on here but that doesn’t make it the best nor does it win them anything.

    • crouchendgooner 16:31 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Whats this got to do with man u?

    • GoonJake 16:32 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      You sad fuckers. The attractive way IS the best way to play? Why? INVINCIBLES.BARCELONA.SPAIN.TOTALFOOTBALLHOLLAND.BRAZIL. now go fuck off you sad manc and jack off to fergie’s long ball. when it comes good for us, you’ll be crapping your pants. we’re financially sound, unlike you, and ill be here to congratulate you on your 2nd place finish this season. good day sir.

      • Ben Dover 22:24 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        LOL! You twat!

        Why bringing Barcelona, Holland and Brazil into the discussion about Arsenal? You think you can compare? LOL!

        Now, WHO’s the sad fucker? :D

    • Alex Song's Hair 16:33 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      It’s because it’s nice football to watch, and if you really think the media are bias towards us you need to look at man utd and the amount of diving and dirty play they get away with which is never put in the press yet eduardo did one dive and was crucified. The media also call Wenger a moaner and don’t realise how much Ferguson moans look to this article (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article7092400.ece). It is the “best” football in terms of watching it, which is what the media mean. You just have to try and twist everything to get Man utd more of a bias than they already havev.

    • GoonJake 16:35 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      we dont have world class players? mate, youre lucky fergie’s got the entire refereeing team on his side. you’d be nothing without him.

      • Ben Dover 22:26 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        I think you need to look through the arsenal games again, mate… you get more lucky breaks from the refs than United do, included a wrong penalty desicion the last time we met.

    • jamie 16:36 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      anyone with darren fletcher in their starting 11 would dream of watching fabregas, nasri, walcott et al every week.

      rooney knows where man u are heading, thats why he wanted out. Your 1 year away from doing a chelsea, mo money mo problems. long live the glaziers….

    • devontouristsutd 16:37 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      oh do shut up you bitter northern mugs

    • cyp gooner 16:40 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      arsenal all the way watch this space u manxs say what u want after i post this good health to all !!!

    • rpww 16:40 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Before I start, I could fill a whole other article about Arsenal hiding behind their so called “young” team, (Checked the ages of Arshavin, Van Persie, Eboue, Sagna, Rosicky etc lately?) or Wenger’s never-ending work in progress/ no silverware operation, but that would be churlish…

      Out of all of these, only Sagna can be considerred a “starter”, so what are you talking about? Take a look at the average age of the starting line-up of Arsenal against Chelsea and then make a decision if that’s high or low, eh!

    • Gooner Steve 16:41 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      When I was growing up we went 17 years without a trophy then along came Graham and cups, titles and the worst football you can imagine. In the last 5 years we’ve built and almost paid for a new stadium and, yes, now there is money, hopefully we’ll spend some. But all in all it could be worse, we’re getting there if slower than the short termists would like. Why are you so sensitive? You win loads of stuff and you want everyone to love you for your football too? Its effective, granted but good to watch? Not these days, sorry. There’s no creativity in your midfield any more and not much entertainment really. Respect.

      • Ben Dover 22:30 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        I can agree with you on the lack of creative midfielders comment, – a Fabregas kind of player would fit in nicely in the United midfield… Maybe in the long term, Cleverley can fill that role if he gets a decent run in the first team.

        And respect for ditching the “boring-arsenal” period!

    • Adam 16:42 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      What a sad and bitter article. Who cares who plays the “best” football? It is entirely subjective and no football fan is going to have an impartial view. So, the Man Utd fans will roll out the old favorites like
      Arsenal never win anything blah, blah, blah. I guarantee you one thing. When United ar no longer top of the tree their fans will still think they play the best football. It’s hardly rocket science is it? One last thing. Please don’t just make up stuff to enforce your argument so Doran , Wenger has never advocated no tackling. Never. As soon as you start talking rubbish like this it voids the rest of your post. It’s just dumb and really stupid.

      • Doron 16:58 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        You know what I mean when I say no tackling, no need to take it literally…

    • Doron 16:42 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Also could have warned you that Arsenal blogs don’t go down well with Gooners….expect much much more of this!!

    • The Captain 16:44 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Manchester United are simply not a good side to watch. No matter what they achieve in the game, any side with the likes of Fletcher and Carrick in it are not worth opening the curtains for. Sorry chaps but if you want to see a side break up the play in midfield, hit the ball down the flanks and hammer in speculative crosses for a host of runners, then United are the side for you. It’s their principle plan and they’ve done it to great effect for years. I like the beautiful game and hats off to Arsenal and Barcelona for trying to provide it. It’s called entertainment. That is simply not on offer at Old Trafford.

      • Ben Dover 22:32 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        I can agree of the entertainment from Barcelona, but Arsenal can only entertain when playing the easy teams… And who can’t?

    • Guner 16:44 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      I do not disagree with some of your points, such as Arsenal playing attractive but not always effective football. Yes seeing players making 99 passes without an end product can be somewhat frustrating. But to suggest that the press, media etc are on our side is really taking the piss. Try pretending to be an Arsenal supporter for 1 game & u will understand what I mean.

    • Adam 16:46 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      It’s all about how you define ‘best’. Arsenal try to play the most attractive style, without necessarily always succeeding. Somewhere along the line people started to get confused and the word ‘attractive’ was replaced by the word ‘best’; I have no idea why, of course we don’t play the best football – or at least we haven’t in recent seasons. As far as I see it, whoever wins the league plays the best football: attractiveness has nothing to do with it.

      In recent seasons I feel the downside to our often attractive brand of football is that it has not managed to win us any trophies. Hopefully this can be the season where we can add the other necessary ingredients to our game and play the best football over the season.

      I do feel that on our day we are capable of playing the best and most attractive football in the EPL, but this is a league which is all about consistency, and whoever can produce the most of that will win it.

      On another note, I think it pays to keep a level head and remain objective when trying to analyse the teams in the title race and their merits. If you fail to manage that, it makes it very hard to respect anything else you say. Doron I’m talking to you: no world class players? Shut up. I think you spelt your name wrong.

      • Doron 16:57 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        No real need for the personal stuff, other than Fabregas who is there? RVP would be in that category but just can’t be because he’s never fit. Nasri could get there if he continues this form for a while longer but putting him up there after a few good months would be a bit rash…who else though? There isn’t really anyone

        • OldGoon 18:57 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          I think you’ll find bacary sagna is one of the best, if not THE best right back in world football, cunt. So we’ve now gone from no ‘world class players’ to rvp, fabregas, sagna without mentioning a match winner in arshavin or Thomas vermaelen. You really are cunt Dipshit.

        • Doron 19:31 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          Sorry but that’s just laughable

        • Ben Dover 22:35 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          OldGoon… You are joking right? :D

          Sagna, Arshavin and Vermaelen world class? LOL! Not even domestic class mate… get real :)

    • Rafi 16:49 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      you say it above that manu play football to win. they can resemble sam alardyce’s bolton wanderers at times when faced with a more footballically superior team, hence the deployment of garry neville to maime when necessary( ask REYES). arsenal on the other hand emulate the likes of barca, brazil, spain, old holland. sure you will agree thats where proper entertaining football is played. you talk about english football having the biggest world following may have more to do with historical coverage of english(the language), etc, matters not relevant in this article.

    • NathonW 16:52 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Arsenal fans are so funny.. They have the full support of the FA, UEFA, every official in the UK and every football pundit worships them – this is why they are still seen as title contenders… However if they did not have this backing, people would soon realise they are slightly better than a mid table team nowadays just with a relatively big history of success up until 2005 (just like Liverpool).

    • Rob B 16:53 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Great article Mike. Personally I think the Goons play good technical football, but not wholly effective football. If they played their game in France or Italy they would walk the league in those countries. But here there is always going to be ways to get at them. When they lose a game its the end of the world, and their players show this the following week. Wenger has good principles when it comes to the game, but the truth is his stubborness has held Arsenal back overall. If he had directly replaced Viera with anyone with similar qualities they wouldnt have gone years without a trophy now.

      This year represents their best chance of winning the league, just as Liverpool had their best chance 2 years back. If they fail this time I think it will be the end of them playing this exact style, or they could fall away just as the Scousers have.

      And would I prefer to watch Arsenal over other less technical teams? No! I think their style is actually rather dull at times. Id much rather watch MUFC, City or Chelsea. This is the Prem not bloody La Liga!

    • jared 16:56 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Arsene Wenger has been in English football for a number of years, the football that arsenal plays is in essence British football, and they have earned the right to play that way.
      Their football has won them 3 EPL titles including a season unbeaten, so i reject your label of foreign and what you think English football should be like.
      Also if Arsenal was playing “traditional” English football would so many viewers around the world tune in to the EPL?, i don’t think they do just to watch Stoke.

      • Doron 17:04 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        Correct me if I’m wrong, but Arsenal didnt play tiki-taka football like they do now when winning the league in 97/98 and 01/02 – in all honesty they weren’t really playing that way in 03/04 either but i’ll let you have that one

    • Dan.Aust 17:00 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      @Doron, Im a Gooner and I aree with a lot of what you have to say and alot of others would too, that in our effort to move away from the hard fighting Boring Boring Arsenal of years ago we have swung to pendulum the opposite way, hitting the balance in the early-mid 2000′s but Wenger has now sung that pendulum too far. Many Gooners are screaming for a couple of quality transfers in the right places, usually a intelligent but hard CB and skillful hard fighting CM/DM (Basically Viera) to add that bit of bite too the team. Many fans prefer us to not be the highest spending club, finding some nobility in Wenger unearthing gems like Vermaelen, Nasri, Cesc and RVP for less than what City are about to pay for their next high priced striker; but we would still like wenger to strengthen to squad where it needs to be strengthened and spend the money when beneficial.

      • Doron 17:11 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        Hi Dan – refreshing to hear…I think it’s fair to say that how much is spent on a player becomes irrelevant at times (im choosing to ignore city) – I’d spend £30m on Rio every time if I went back in time, but I hear what you’re saying. I think it’s one of the things that Arsenal can look at United for – there are quite a few occasions in PL history where in a summer, United have only brought in one player for say £17m – a big individual fee but the summer spending in total is quite modest. I think that is the kind of thing Arsenal need to do. I’ve always thought that someone like Scott Parker and even maybe Hangeland would be good signings – certainly not in the current Arsenal mould in terms of style but if that’s what’s needed, that’s what you’ve got to get.

        Thanks for your positive comments, your thoughts have been echoed to me a few times by some of the more down-to-earth Arsenal fans on Twitter.

    • guy 17:01 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      i havent even finished reading your article yet as i got confused by ur arguement arsenal have an old team. you realise the average age of the team that beat chelsea was 22?

    • 58 17:03 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      lol!! wtf is this about?? the media on arsenals side?? thats a 1st!! the media adore man u and chelsea!! u can do nothing wrong!! fergy is a saint in the medias eyes! what he says goes!! wenger is the scum of the earth in the medias eyes as he is omg FOREIGN!!! what a crime! chelsea r awful right now and what do the media say? no worries they r champions, drogba best striker in the world etc, they will be back! or rooney gets a lucky goal and suddenly he is the best player in the world again! if arsenal went on a run like chelsea or had a mug like rooney playing shit up front the media would have a field day! they would love it and love arsenal to fail!! i think m8 your far too arrogant to understand!
      and arsenal do play amazing football and trust me for the fans who get to watch this live every week r lucky! better than watching boring 1 nil wins like man u and chelsea do! arsenals way is the right way in every sense – living within our means! playing attacking attractive football, not spending billions on big names! u lot should be very scared! our team is maturing very nicely! our bills nearly paid off! so within next few years not only will arsenal win things, by playing amazing football, they will also have money which they earned themselves! to challenge big spenders like man u! all in an amazing stadium! love to see what happens to liverpool, chelsea, spurs if they ever have the balls to move into a new stadium!! those teams will get relegated!! no matter how much u hate arsenal u should try look at the bigger picture and respect them! thx to chelseas muggy rise i actually respect man u! at least man u r worthy champions when they win things! but their fans need to sort it out and stop being cocks!!
      and that was funny about engand playing the arsenal way!! that will never happen as english players dont know how to play attractive football! all they know is kick and run footy!! oh wait…give them 5/10 years when all the english lads at arsenal r in the england team..then we might play good footy for once!! (thomas, lansbury, gibbs, wilshere, walcott etc)

      • cartelmike 17:09 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        im not being remotely arrogant, im just fed up of hearing about your “amazing” football. It wins nothing. You say “attractive” ? but to whom ? The thrill of United’s trophy haul beats concise midfield passing anyday mate.
        But again, like youve said, ive far more respect for Arsenal’s team, manager and philosophies than any of our other rivals, its just this “YOU MUST ACCEPT ARSENAL’S FOOTBALL IS THE NICEST” from the media that winds me up

        • Boop 17:42 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          The thrill of United’s trophy haul was largely accomplished on the back of media adulation for your fantastic style of play. This year is different, and a continuing trophy haul is looking less likely, too, but I’ll never count you out.

          Don’t forget our history either mate in your rush to contrast trophies with no trophies. Arsenal have 13 league titles and 10 FA cups, blah blah blah. That’s a trophy haul to take seriously, as is yours, and as a club we can afford a few barren years and still be super proud (even if we can only content ourselves with watching good footie).

    • Chris 17:09 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      I am not certain that just having Ji-Sung Park (who may in any case be unavaiable from time to time) is by itself a guarantee that Arsenal will not beat ManU

    • jared 17:10 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Arsenal does not play Tika-Taka football, i think that you do not understand their approach ,what they are playing now is just a refinement of those championship winning sides.

      • Doron 17:12 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        I disagree, Arsenal’s style now is like Barcelona’s in the way they try and play, few can deny that. The move to 4-5-1/4-3-3 was the final piece in completing the transformation. Arsenal do play a tiki-taka style now. Very very different to the title winning Arsenal sides.

        • jared 17:18 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          It only resembles Tiki-Taka because Arsene is a big fan of Dutch Total football.
          An as you would know, the role that Johan Cruyff played in developing Barca current system.

        • Doron 17:41 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          Right, either way you claim before is really quite wrong, the football Arsenal play now, is very different to that played by the title winning sides

    • king gooner 17:10 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      ffs what is ” THE MANURE ” blogs obsession with THE ARSENAL-i swear their like fng stalkers!-republik of MANURE are at it as well -all these f**ng northern monkeys from salford on about that carrot headed c**t scolezee being better than fabregas?u wot?i nearly pissed myself laughing-stick to your own blogs girls & concentrate on your “noisy neighbours” not the gooner empire.now jog on1

      • cartelmike 17:14 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        no obsession. first time ive ever written about Arsenal. To repeat, i totally respect the football, but am totally fed up of it being held up as the shining example when it wins nothing

        • jared 17:20 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          it’s only been 5 yrs,and Wenger is to blame for some of that with his strict budget.

    • Duncan 17:10 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Arsenal used to play beautiful football and never won anything. Now they play shit football and still don’t win anything. Simply, Arsenal are shit – perhaps the most overrated team on the planet.

    • DB 17:12 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      VDS > Fabianski, Rafael > Sagna, Ferdinand > Koscielny, Vidic > Vermaelen, Evra > Clichy, Nasri > Valencia, Fabregas > Carrick, Anderson > Song, Nani > Arshavin, Rooney > Van Persie, Berbatov > Chamakh.

      United > Arsenal

      • DB 17:14 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        And of course Sir Alex Ferguson > Wenger

    • jezz09 17:12 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Nobody is going to win this argument. Ask any fan, who truly supports their club and loves their club, who they think plays the ‘best’, most attractive football, they are going to tell you that it is their own club. As a united supporter, I dont get any enjoyment out of watching arsenals so called beautiful football, it doesn’t appeal to me, i have an extra instilled interest, a love for the way my club plays football, and all true fans are going to be the same, especially fans of top clubs. 2 arsenal fans could have a different opinion on the international team which plays the ‘best football’ because there is not a love for any of these teams, unless you are from spain, brazil, holland etc. But arsenal are media darlings, of course you guys wont agree, wenger sometimes gets a hard time, but usually deserves it for being outrageous, but the team, players, and rest of the club are adored by much of the media. no doubt about it

    • Chris 17:12 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      I agree with Jared if he’s saying no-one in England play anything like Barca

      Arsenal are very different imo

    • Chris 17:13 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      I don’t agre with Duncan, who seems to be saying something completely stupid

    • rizal 17:13 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      I am getting board at this board at this sour grape issues: may I ask you , why does most people think that women which is min of 170-175 cm is suit better to have a future in modeling ?

      I am sure most of them would agree , except for those women who is 160-ish and below.

      I could give you technical footballing reason why, but then I am sure it will fall into deaf ears because most (not all) Manu have ego & sour grape issues.

    • Duncan 17:15 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      I don’t agree with Chris, who seems to be a cunt

    • Arsenal 17:17 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      @ cartelmike …..If you indeed admire and respect Arsenal FC and Arsene Wenger philosophy and choice then why wrote this to demise and condemn Arsenal beautiful football……Frankly Wenger foresight seen many things surplus to what many EPL moronic managers (Already striking up fire right now of Arsenal when he can see the threat pose by Arsenal this season)…… Why don’t you write something along that line to comment on your beloved ManU manager ? Hey are you blinded to the facts that English football was way behind the trend and always get into the face of Arsenal players and curry favour like right now to Stoke Pulis to get favourably results (Fuck it who cares you guys will attacks this point as every damn honest fans can see this facts playing for many years) ……

      @Doron …..I can assume you read only those useless Arsenal blogs and true fans ignore to steps on those blogs and needlessly to say visit the blog? Are you seeing your narrow minded comments? Hey ManU can play good football but they are getting most favourably referee decisions for many years….I prefer that FA introduce neutral referees other than English man and hey the media was so unfair and you guys love to read their comments that you totally miss out Wenger consistent comments for so long not reported….Oh I forgot never been fair to Arsenal FC and Wenger being Frenchy but he likes committed fouls but not Malicious Intent….Birmingham Roger Johnson’s tackle on Cesc Fabregas was malicious intent like they always said “Leave Your Mark” but Arsenal grown up this season and mature to handle this and may I ask what’s next? Clueless huh! ……4-3-3 OR WHATEVER VARIATIONS is not copy right from Barca and even so Holland patent total football and hey Wenger just need to adapt accordingly as his players around him warrant that…so tell me is Walcott a winger? Yes and no ….Aah enough said ….do you know football to really comments objectively with a open mind?

      • cartelmike 17:23 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        youve read it wrong mate, im not condemning Arsenal or their football. Im trying to understand how its held up as the correct way to play ? Where did this come from ? What makes Arsenal the most attractive ? Short passing ? Explain ?

        • jared 17:27 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          you should not take the media so seriously,if Arsenal fails to win the EPL then that same media would be waiting to take a dump on them

      • Doron 17:29 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        Can honestly say I have no idea what on earth that post to me is on about

    • Boop 17:19 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Life is about choices, and even the media make their choices. Certain outlets (or journos for particular media) just love United for various reasons, some of them cliches, some of them thought through, some of them simplistic. A reflection of ordinary people. My opinion as a bored gooner on a work break has always been that the praise of Arsenal as some sort of embodiment of a higher style is overdone, but has a role to play in any wider discussion of tactics and styles (that you’ll find in any footballing nation from Argentina to Zambia). It’s become a stereotype and I can see why supporters of other clubs – including Blackpool and West Brom, not just MUFC or Chelsea find it a wind up.

      For what it’s worth, my take on United is that prior to the loss of Ronaldo United for years (predating Ronaldo, of course) had an expansive, attacking, highly mobile and full of one-touch flair (over longer distances than Arsenal currently, apart from Cesc) and technical virtuosity that won them many many fans, and the 1999 victory over Bayern and later Chelsea (despite the actual final decided on penalties) were moments that enshrined that style of play. This year this has been severely curtailed, and United seem to win on having a solid defensive pairing and defensive discipline and riding their luck which I also admire (and do admire Mourinho’s teams, as well, although he borders on too defensive). Chelsea in the first few months this season played the best footie, and for most of last season too. Really exciting stuff offensively that was often team flair with occasional individual brilliance that matched United in its pomp and was frankly more pleasing to the eye than what Arsenal was consistently putting out there.

      But here’s my qualifier – when Nasri, Arshavin, Cesc and RvP are all on the pitch (average age 25), and this has rarely been due to injuries – then Arsenal can play with a beauty and style that is both eye-catching and effective. The difference is that Arsenal rely more on individual brilliance rather than schematic flair of Ferguson which can have a Park and a Fletcher in there but not suffer so much, but when Cesc isn’t there for Arsenal the play become laboured and not worthy of the praise it gets on reputation more than anything. Once Vermaelen/Djourou/Kos develop a top pairing to nearly match Carvalho and Terry or Vidic and Rio then our “susceptibility” (also exaggerated, like our supposedly refined style) to long balls/Drogba/set pieces/not liking it up ‘em (fill in the blank) will diminish, too.

      Also, a lot of your article and your readers comments still work on assumptions about gooners that aren’t true. We don’t all think we have a young team, just a bit too young to win trophies, yet. Meanwhile, many of us content ourselves with being ambassadors of attacking football but will nearly bite your hand off for a trophy if only to get that monkey off our back, and expect to see some very soon. We don’t all think we have the best youth set up, just one of the best in England. We don’t bemoan tough tackling or hard play, just feel frustrated at times that it’s us that (prior to this season) suffers the seemingly intentional leg breakers (to wit, how many times did Bowyer stamp on United players the previous week – I bet it was less than the four against us; how many times did Barton go after United midfielders? A few I am sure, but equivalent to the three times in the 17 minutes he was on the pitch he went after Cesc?). But even this is not worrying us much anymore. What comes around these days mostly goes around so that’s really not on our agenda these days. Also, most gooners understand that what Wenger says to the media is self-serving and not to be taken seriously (as other fans seem to take it, wallowing in their lack of media savvy). Finally, Wenger has been doing the same thing for yonks, now, and it’s getting a tad tedious for everyone, although those of us who can appreciate fine tuning see the many subtle shifts and changes that he engineers to try and get this squad of still too young players over the finish line. But the overaching continuity probably adds to everyone having a bit less time for his teams. But he’s surely allowed one last hurrah of 2-5 seasons and then he’s gone? Anyway, told you I was bored. Now fuck off and start worrying about losing your unbeaten record at the Emirates.

    • janmetcalf 17:22 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Haha Arsenal fans are so bitter. Great post Mike, its only good football if you actually win things, Arsenal don’t and wont until they put behind their pompous holier than thou attitude. Watch them bottle another big game against City tomorrow and their ‘title challenge’ crumble.

    • Alan 17:24 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Yes it has been frustrating being a Gooner over the last 5 years, but it has also been understandable. We built a new stadium and did not have any money spare, to compensate Wenger chose to invest in youth, now we are in a better financial position he feels that the youngsters he has been nurturing deserve the chance to mature into a winning team.

      In the mean time this young team has managed to qualify for the Champ League each year whilst playing some of the most eye pleasing football in the country (inconsistently), with the lack of debt and the players below the futures bright the futures Arsenal

      As you can see the vast majority of the squad are 25 or younger, those around 25 years old should be coming to their prime, all those younger can still improve a lot from where they are at present.
      In addition we have a good group of youngsters (under 20, Mostly English) coming through that will push the existing squad hard

      Szczesny, Wilshere 19
      Ramsey, 20
      Gibbs, Walcott, Bendtner, Vela, 21
      Denilson 22
      Diaby, Fabregas, Nasri, Djourou, Song 23
      Koscielny, Clichy, Vermaelen, Fabianski., Chamakh, l 25
      van Persie, 26
      Sagna, Eboue both 27
      Rosicky, Arshavin 30

      • Doron 17:34 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        You’re right that under the age of 20 there are some very good English talents coming through. I explained before, the whole having no money thing is just a myth. Arsenal budget conservatively – to get into the CL once every 3 years, hence every year they do better than what they budgeted for and there is a cash surplus. Wenger and the board agreed all surplus should go to paying off the debt sooner – very admirable and ultimately the correct path for better business. But would do no harm to give 50% of surplus to Wenger for transfers and put the other 50% to the debt – would still be paying off the debt quicker than expected.

    • northernbof 17:25 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      That’s the best article I’ve read by a MUFC blogger,and except for your last sentence ,which deserves several long winded rebuttals,I agree with everything you wrote. Sadly, with our recent appalling results against Utd, my only pleasure is the knowledge that SAF is as scared of us as Wenger is of you.A little bit of courage and a few more brain cells and the results would be very different .

    • tim 17:27 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      I see what you’re getting at but…

      1. You completely left out the financial side of things. The only reason Arsenal haven’t won anything for 5 years is because they’ve been outrageously outspent. Arsenal winning the league wouldn’t be a “victory for football” simply because Arsenal play good football. It would be a “victory for football” because they didn’t get involved in the silly spending that is ruining/will ruin most of the world’s great clubs. Once Chelsea came along, there were two approaches taken by other teams: one was to spend until you can’t spend anymore (see United, City, Liverpool, Real, Barca, etc.), and the other was the Arsenal approach. The Arsenal approach, while not having yielded a trophy in 5 years, has still ensured that Arsenal remained one of the top 10 teams in all of Europe.

      It’s been all fun and games for the last few years for supporters of these ridiculously over spending and now ridiculously debt ridden clubs to poke fun at Arsenal and Wenger in particular for not having won anything for 5 years, but surely you have the foresight to recognize that Arsenal chose the better path going forward. Just think how many milions and millions and millions of pounds the likes of Chelsea and United have had to spend to finish ahead of Arsenal, then consider what would happen if it was Arsenal that was the team who spent the most, something which could very well become a reality in the near future. Without the financial power to substantially outspend Arsenal, only United, because of Ferguson’s genius, would be able to compete.

      2. You grossly exaggerate Arsenal’s ineffectiveness. For example, Arsenal currently lead the Prem in both wins and goals. What better way to measure effectiveness than wins and goals?

      And while you throw stones from your crumbling Theatre of Dreams, how many shots on target did United have, on its own patch, against Arsenal? Besides Park’s “oh look what I’ve just done” lucky moment, Nasri’s effort which was well stopped by Van Der Sar was the best chance of the match. You won a narrow 1-0 at home; let’s not get carried away here.

      And while we’re on the topic of effectiveness, let me ask you, would you consider 2 wins from 9 away matches to be effective? Well you have 10 more aways to cope with. You better start getting effective away from Old Trafford or you’ll see the lowest spending club in the Prem, you know, the one who plays in triangles all the way up the pitch until they get to the oppo’s box, soar by you in the table on the way to what would be, in the eyes of many, a “victory for football.”

      That’s all.

      • cartelmike 17:34 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        nice. all accepted. i wanted the article to be more about the perceived BEST way to play football. Not sure about the “Victory for football” as Berbatov apart we’ve spent comparably very little. In fact youve probably spent more than us in the last few years

        • tim 18:07 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          Net spending from 06-the beginning of this season is as follows:

          1. City – Net spending of 326 million quid and counting…

          15. Man Utd. – 154 million quid spent but recouped 150 of it, largely through Ronaldo, which is why United are 15th in the last 5 year’s net spending table with a net of about 3.5 million.

          20. Arsenal – Spent 81 and recouped 111 through sales, meaning Arsenal have profited by over 30 mil from their transfer dealings over the last 5 seasons, making Arsenal the lowest spending Premiership club over the last 5 seasons, by far. Their dealings over the last 5 seasons have been nearly identical to Pompey’s. Enough said.

          Now, when looking at net spending from 92 (first year of the Prem) until the beginning of this season, Arsenal still, despite all of their success, are much closer to the bottom than the top in terms of net spending.

          1. City – 379 Mil.
          2. Chelsea – 371 Mil.
          3. Pool – 185 Mil.
          4. Yids – 183 Mil. (Oh dear.)
          5. Villa – 142 Mil.
          6. United – 129 Mil.
          …Followed by Newcastle, Sunderland, Brum, Fulham, Everton, then…
          12. Arsenal – 36 Mil.

          It’s only when you really look at these numbers that you can truly appreciate what Wenger has been able to accomplish at Arsenal. All those league titles and FA Cups and trips to Europe, etc., all on a budget less than Fulham’s.

          So next time anyone who is reading this wants to poke fun at Arsenal or Wenger for not winning anything for 5 years, consider the success Arsenal have had under his watch relative to the spending table.

        • Doron 18:28 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          Tim, your figures for net spending are a bit outdated…having actually just researched this yesterday…well only research for Arsenal, City, United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs:

          Arsenal
          94/95 – 99/00 – £76.29 – £26.47
          00/01 – 05/06 – £118.75 – £40.196
          *06/07 – present – £85.15 – **£-27.35
          Total spent – £280.19
          Total net spend – £39.316

          moved to Emirates

          Toure and Adebayor sales account for £-41 of net spend

          Chelsea
          94/95 – 99/00 – £83.58 – £58.54
          00/01 – 05/06 – £367.4 – £297.68
          06/07 – present – £123.5 – £21.7
          Total spent – £574.48
          Total net spend – £377.91

          Liverpool
          94/95 – 99/00 – £88.8 – £59.05
          00/01 – 05/06 – £146.45 – £79.7
          06/07 – present – £194.79 – £45.31
          Total spent – £430.04
          Total net spend – £184.06

          Man City
          94/95 – 99/00 – £30.16 – £9.772
          00/01 – 05/06 – £75.75 – £36.485
          06/07 – present – £428.67 – £373.62
          Total spent – £534.58
          Total net spend – £419.877

          Man United
          94/95 – 99/00 –£ 73.7 – £38.895
          00/01 – 05/06 – £183.9 – £83.75
          06/07 – present – £160.8 – ***£8.25
          Total spent – £418.4
          Total net spend – £130.895
          ***Ronaldo sale accounts for £-80 of net spend

          Tottenham
          94/95 – 99/00 – £65.1 – £44.775
          00/01 – 05/06 – £96.85 – £56.158
          06/07 – present – £229.8 – £94.7
          Total spent – £391.75
          Total net spend – £195.633

          I totally appreciate what Wenger has done, it is amazing, but I firmly believe his stubbornness to not spend (when money is there – see one of my first comments for the story i told my cousin) is also his biggest flaw

          In terms of past 5 years and comparing budget to that of Fulham, well in general in the past five years, Wenger has had a good squad anyway…my qualm is that if Wenger wasn’t so stubborn and was prepared to ask the board to sign say one very good player more a year I think that Arsenal wouldn’t have had this barren spell – it’s a shame that if Arsenal win the CC at the end of Feb it will have virtually been 6 years since the last trophy and really only Wenger is to blame for that – money has always been there but the club and wenger’s policy is to not use it and put it to the debt.

      • jared 17:39 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        Well said Tim

      • Doron 17:39 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        Check my reply to Alan above RE the finances…Arsenal have chosen not to spend…it’s not a case that they’ve been unable to. Arsenal could have spent more than they have done if they wanted to..but seeing as you outlined past 5 years:

        10/11 – spent £14.5m
        09/10 – spent £10m
        08/09 – spent £15.75m
        07/08 – spent £31m
        06/07 – spent £13.9m

        a lot of money but backs up your claim that arsenal have been outspent – just don’t get into the believing that there wasn’t more to be spent if Wenger/Arsenal wanted to…it is though a sad state of affairs that the team who spends the most will probably end up doing the best

        • jared 17:42 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          the players that would of suited Arsenal were far to expensive

        • Doron 17:49 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          Jared, that’s such an easy excuse to make, that’s what Arsenal spent, not their net spend, the ned spend would show you that Arsenal raised plenty of money from player sales and that had they wanted to sign someone specifically, chances are unless it was a Messi then Arsenal probably could have been competitive for a good player (a good player doesnt have to cost stupid money like City pay, still today very few transfers are more than £20m)

        • jared 17:55 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          So what, he saved a couple of pounds, at least we are not in debt

        • Doron 18:03 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          you are in debt, just you’ll be out of it within a few years as opposed to never!

        • jared 18:06 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          Well at least we make a profit

        • Doron 18:14 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          Not worth me going into United’s accounts but best to check our financial figures and reports before you say something like that…they’re available online for anyone to look at, you might be surprised

        • tim 18:20 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          Have done. And check out my reply right above this.

      • Ben Dover 22:51 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        Tim wrote: “Arsenal currently lead the Prem in both wins and goals”.

        Now with the same number of games played, United lead the Premier league on points, goals, wins and have not lost a game all season…

    • MaSi_Red 17:30 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Personally i was never a fan of the “possession football” Arsenal and Barcelona play. I think it is boring if you play 20-30 short passes without getting anywhere near the goal and you´ll see this the whole game, every week without any plan b.

      For me Arsenal don´t play the best and don´t play the most watchable football. I´d rather see a fast counter attack than seeing the same fucking short passes for 10 minutes until someone actually intends to attempt a shot at goal.

      The biggest problem for Arsenal also is that their players (except Fabregas, Nasri and Arshavin if he actually cares which he doesn´t most of the time) are not good enough to play their game if they have a solid defense in front of them. In Barcelona the whole midfield and strikeforce can easily unlock a opponent team with their style even if they have a great defense in front of them.

    • emi 17:30 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      your said was like a human without a brain..simply not intellectual at all..no intelligence..no vision…maybe a kind of jealous too…when u worry about to get goals, then u not get that goal..unless you are very lucky likes man u vs wba..when u stop worry about to get goal u will get the goal..or goal(s)..that’s the arsenal way..and one thing..football is an art..arsenal play art football..not like mu just cross the ball into the box..during beckham time there’s even more crosses..what a borink football that is..maybe u man u fans know football is goal..football = goal. just want to see goal..they dont even watch football full time game for their team..and question a friend who score the goal????..what is the scoreline???..what a stupid fan it is..rather support blackpool..play much better than mu..hope man u lose there..other team to support is wba..even arsenal lose to them..they actually play better than mu..even there underdog,,they know what football is about..man u is just a lucky team…their goals lucky..their wins also lucky..bring on man u at the emirates..we will show them what football is about..

    • pragunkheta 17:31 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Brilliant article. The best football is the one that brings results.

    • DanS 17:32 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      I can’t understand why Arsenal fans have to comment. If you don’t like what you’re reading, STOP and hit the back button.

      Many of you need to wake up and stop deluding yourself.

      • tim 17:52 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        Dan,

        I didn’t know we were living in Saudi Arabia and that discussion of issues was frowned upon.

        Maybe you’re just getting prepared for when the Saudis buy your club from the Yanks?

    • jamie 17:55 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      good luck stoke, i really hope the slack jawed defender of theirs breaks rooneys legs tonight. and fregies.

    • Franchise 17:55 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      I agree a lot with what you are saying and yes I am a gunner. The team we had in 02-04 was definitely much better to watch

      we lack cutting edge

    • Byo 18:08 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      “English football is about pace, power, talismanic characters…..”. I guess we saw plenty of that at the 2010 WC,(or in 2006, 2002 or 1998) for that matter. Then you go on give a list of players from the last century to illustrate your point!
      Here in the US, I look forward to watching Arsenal matches than any other teams in the EPL. It may even surprise you I watch Blackpool and Bolton too. Then I spend some time on the Spanish league even though it is a 2-team league!
      This article sounds like a dig against Arsenal style. Does it show you must be worried about them or just jealous?

    • Gooby 18:08 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      can’t see the point of your post, everyone is entitled to have an opinion about the type of football she/he prefers.
      you like the way man untd play, or maybe you find stoke or blackburn amazing teams to watch…
      some like arsenal’s.

    • Neutal 18:22 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Neutral here. This is one of the poorest blogs I’ve ever read, contradicting points and no real meaning. I mean, it reeks of sour grapes, which is strange from a fan of such a great side as Manchester United. Arsenal play attractive football. It’s entertaining, and when it works it’s beautiful. United dont anymore. But they are still as effective. So why do you care so much?

      Strange…

    • James T 18:45 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Neutral (Preston!) fan’s opinion.

      Arsenal are by far the most attractive prem team to watch. When it clicks for them, its the type of football most fans dream of seeing their own team play. Nasri and Fabregas especially are sublime to watch.

      Furthermore, their club is on extremely solid foundations and would be a great model to follow. I’ve been to the Emirates with my work and its a fantastic place, and the club is exceptionally ran.

      Doron – You strike me as a worried fan. I predict that Utd, with financial issues and aging players with few quality youngsters coming through, could come unstuck in the next few years……

      • Doron 19:18 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        not really worried….few quality youngsters is a rash statement…at present NO club in the country has more international youth players than united, all bar 2 players in the academy have had youth caps

        in terms of individuals, high hopes for morrison, tunnicliffe, pogba, keane, cofie, thorpe, mcginty, van velzen to name a few, yep they’re on the young young side, but the squad at present with a couple of players this summer and next should remain competitive until hopefully some of these young players can start to fulfil their potential

        in terms of the finances, no not too worried at the moment – i’ve only been talking about them as it was something i researched only yesterday

        • Ben Dover 22:54 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          And also, it is easy to forget that Rafael, Smalling, Evans, Fabio, Nani, Hernandez, Welbeck, Macheda, Obertan, Anderson and Gibson are young players :)

      • Doron 19:19 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        should also add that the reason i’ve been vocal no this post is that few things irk me more than ill-informed football fans…dont mind opinions but when it comes to figures or things like that, just riles me

        • Ole Gunner 19:44 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          You keep insisting Arsenal just choose not to spend. It’s really annoying because you’re talking out of your arse. Liverpool spent more money than Man Utd & have won nothing & are worse than ever. Spurs have spent serious dosh as have Villa. Yet Arsenal are ahead of them. Ever think what that means? It shows that overspending which the likes of you consider the norm is not effective. We don’t have a rich sugardaddy. Profits made last year fund acquisitions this season for us. The only way you make profits is to watch your spending, since you can’t wage a magic wand and increase your revenues.

          WHAT’S SO DAFT ABOUT WHAT YOU’RE SAYING IS YOU FORGET THAT WE HAD TO REPLACE AN ENTIRE SQUAD AND BUILD A STADIUM AT THE SAME TIME. WITH OUR OWN RESOURCES.

        • Doron 23:36 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          You need to take a look at Arsenal’s accounts to have any idea….based on Arsenal’s budgeting there has been a cash surplus EVERY SINGLE YEAR since the stadium move and that surplus has always gone towards non-playing investments and paying off the debt…if Arsenal changed their policy and say put 50% of the surplus to transfers….hello…bing…wenger has money

          I’ve not for one minute though said i don’t admire what arsenal have done and achieved, by contrast when I listed the amount of money city, united, liverpool, spurs, chelsea and arsenal have spent since 94/95 earlier i said there was much to be admired about it – but the excuse of having no money to spend is not exactly correct when there is this surplus every year. Just a question of policy.

    • Nick 18:46 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Do Manc fans really believe that we’re actually being protected by refs and media ????? If we were we wouldn’t have 3 leg breaks and so many injuries now would we ffs

    • Another neutral here 18:49 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      I like your statement: “More watch us than any other league in the world,” but guess what? People watch Arsenal a lot more than ManU… at least that’s what I’ve noted in the three countries I’ve lived….

      • Ben Dover 22:55 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        lol, – how did you measure this? :D

    • Darnyyyy 19:00 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Man U fans r the biggest haters and cunts I’ve ever seen. Ferguson is best friends with the FA hence why they get all the good decisions. Arsenal do play very attractive football and the lack of success is due to this squad being very new, especially compared to united’s, Clichy is our longest standing player (2004-present). Man U have had Scholes, Giggs, Neville 4 ever and have spent £30mil on players like Ferdinand and Rooney. Arsenal dont spend anywhere near that. Our football is delightful to watch and urs is some shit that somehow works with help from ref’s (west brom game prime example) And who the fuck said we didnt play good football when we went unbeaten, u must have missed the whole season or only just had laser eye surgery recently. Fuck Man U, the media hate Arsenal and love United and Chelsea. All i heard after west brom was ‘true champions, won without playing well’ however despite a good performance against fulham earlier in the season by Arsenal, all i heard was ‘theyre so suspect etc.’ The media lick United ass. And most of ur fans r clear cunts. I used to respect Man U but Arsenals name is in ur bloody mouths too much, so now i’m losing so much respect and it’s turning to a hatred which compares to my hatred of spurs and chelsea. Ur soon gonna go bust, spending so much money that u aint got isnt sustainable. FUCK U AND UR SHIT FOOTBALL. And world class : Fab, Arsh, Nasri, Sagna (the dickhead that said Rafael is bettter is the most deluded cunt known to man), Verm, Song (soon world class) and many with great potential (wilshire). 4-0 against west ham with ur second team shows how great ur fucking squad is. Have as many injuries as Arsenal in the last few years and see how much u woulda won u twats

      • Doron 19:15 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        joker

        • emi 19:20 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          doron joker fucking shit

        • Doron 19:32 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          why do people get off on swearing?

        • Darnyyyy 21:26 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          Doron ur a fucking cunt, but ur sister is very good in bed so I don’t have a grudge against ur whole family :)

        • Doron 23:40 on January 4, 2011 Permalink

          Some people in this world are truly bizarre

      • emi 19:16 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        yeeaahhh…well done darnyyy..come on gooners..fuck man u now…we are the king of football..man u are shit

    • JackH 19:00 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      When have arsenal ever played better football then united? Pretty tippy tappy stuff yes, but never dynamic, free flowing, devastating and lethal. Thats the only way united no how to play.

      • phil 19:27 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        We won league titles, Fa cups and went a season unbeaten “playing dynamic, free flowing, devastating and lethal” football. You seem to have pushed those memories out of your mind. Arsene perfected the counter attacking brand of football that you deluded self congratulatory mugs are now playing. Fergurson simply copies Arsene. Wenger is always in front of the trend. That pretty tippy tappy stuff is the reason spain are european and world champions and the reason Barcelona became european champions 2 years back.

    • JamesUnited 19:01 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      I’ve to say, this Post is quiet ridiculous indeed, as Neutral says, We along arsenal play good football, but tbh, arsenal are the more attractive, when England try to play with Power and Pace, where has it got them in last 100 years or so?….

      Who would you prefer to watch, Blackburn;Stoke;Kettering town LOL or Arsenal?…

      Now stop being deluded, We’re both great clubs, arsenal would’ve won something if the they weren’t Overpowered in spending.

    • phil 19:15 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      How many United fans realise that the fast counter attacking football that you all love was based upon Arsenal? Arsene built his teams around this in the early 00′s and this is what won us league titles and cups. Now we have moved our style along and when a suitable amount of time has passed, to ensure that all you boarder line retarded United fans who can just about remember last tuesday have forgotten Arsenals current style, Fergie will once again copy Arsene, like he has been doing for the last 10 years in an attempt to bring success to Manchester.

      To have a go at Arsenal for being exceptionally well run is moronic. We haven’t been saddled with debt and will be able to spend freely once the UEFA financial fair play regulations come into effect. Arsenal are building a very strong foundation for future success. I for one am not one of the impatient Arsenal fans that feels entitled to instant success, instant gratification. I’m going to be supporting this club for a long time, and enjoying the success that was built upon now for a long time as well.

      • Rob B 21:03 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        “How many United fans realise that the fast counter attacking football that you all love was based upon Arsenal?”

        Quite possibly the most deluded comment ive ever read. Have a look at our trophy laden museum and then have a look at your IKEA cabinet. We were playing attractive football back when Arsenal permanently had their hands in the air calling for offside after offside. It is comments like this that is a pre-cursor to this article.

        Dream on………………..

    • Gooby 19:20 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      United aren’t exactly playing awesome football this year.

      Btw, what do united have to say about lee bowyer’s ban. it wasn’t a clean challenge but johnson’s was worse. But my question is, how does ferdinand get away with his high kick on sagna and vidic on an arsenal player i can’t remember who though.

    • Jonny 19:35 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      This article is utter shite. Maybe if it was written by a mutual I’d actually listen to it, but this is coming from a Man Utd point of view, lets face it Man U hate Arsenal and Arsenal hate Man U. Your stats are also totally useless, you say “Checked the ages of Arshavin, Van Persie, Eboue, Sagna, Rosicky” Against chelsea, in arguably our best match of the season two of these 5 played when all were available. Maybe you need to check the ages of Nasri, Fabregas, Gibbs, Vermaelen, Diaby, Song,Wilshire, Fabianski (Young for a GK) Szczhesney, Djourou and Walcott. On top of this, Arsenal hardly hind behind their age any more, they have matured a lot. You seem to talk about this as if you’re some kind of expect but its obvious you’re just another deluded Man Utd fan slagging off other teams just because they’re better than something at you. Just be proud of your own team without trying to demean other teams with your clearly shit football knolwedge.

      • Darnyyyy 21:28 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        exactly Jonny United fans know shit about footy but run their mouths… i bet half of them aint even from manchester the glory hunting twats (not all of u, but the cunts like doron)

      • cartelmike 09:43 on January 5, 2011 Permalink | Reply

        perhaps i shouldnt have mentioned the age thing in the same article. It wasnt my real point. I just wanted to know why short passing triangles are being held up as the correct way to play football. Why ?

    • Jaze 19:37 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Gooby – what an earth are you on about? Stop talkin shit you drip.

    • Danny Salford Red 20:23 on January 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Most amused at the illiterate foul mouthed Arsenal fans on here. Good portion of them foreign it would seem but then its us with no local fans isnt it……………………………. :-)

    • king gooner 11:14 on January 5, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      darnyy ,well said old chap-as i’ve said prev on this blog-it’s easy to see why ABU started up against the arrogant b***trds!the out of towners(salford) oughty to concentrate on their”noisy neighbours”& wind their necks in when it comes to us…what is their obssession ffs!rep of manure are at it as well-about the carrot headed dwarf who plays for them.spuds are not even on the radar when it comes to hate concerning salford fc

    • manutdot 21:40 on January 5, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Point being made quite clearly in the Manchester City game tonight, Arsenal utterly dominant in possession but couldnt get the vital 3 points…

    • richard 02:06 on January 27, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      6 games played between United and Arsenal in the EPL and Champions League over the past two years.
      United have won 5 and drawn 1, which in the most basic of math equations concludes that United have not lost 1. United over this period have scored 10 goals against Arsenal and given up 4, And have beaten Arsenal by the score of 3-1 at Arsenal on two occasions over this same period. You know what, I like our chances to make it a doudbe this year.

    • Taylor 23:49 on May 3, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      I agree with what you say. Arsenal plays beautifully and i absolutely love them.

      However, it hasn’t gotten them very far has it? They have the potential to be great. But they haven’t reached the full potential that they COULD have.

      I’m a die hard gunner fan. But you have a great point. They have little to show for their graceful passing.

      Nasri said recently that “he would swap every individual accolade he has received this season to get his hands on the Premier League trophy.”

      So it is about winning. If they can do it beautifully then even better.

      Great article.

    • sandy 08:03 on October 11, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Good article .But your views seem to come out of the fact that you cannot handle the success of a foriegn coach with a foriegn style in the EPL .The fact is people love to watch attractive football.That is why we love Brazil and Argentina more than England or Italy .More recently spain .Barcelona and Arsenal among the clubs .
      And get this right .Ferguson is no better than Wenger.He spend more than 15 million on 3 players in the last summer in 1 year .Wenger has spent 15 million on 1 player in 15 years .
      So if Man U is winning more(only recently) that Arsenal its because they spend big and play dirty .

    • cartelmike 14:20 on October 11, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      what? Ferguson is Scottish? i dont care where he’s from. Youve fallen into the trap immediately. “The fact is people want to watch attractive football” you say. Well, attractive to whom? Arsenal’s short passing is deemed attractive. Im pointing out that its not

  • cartelmike 10:03 on December 23, 2010 Permalink | Reply  

    Manchester United’s accidental Winter break 

    Much has been made of the Chelsea away game postponement. Conspiracy theorists are in their element suggesting that Ancelotti took secret delight in the first opportunity to postpone last weekend’s game. He may well have done. All i’m hearing is of the advantage to Chelsea, and their opportunity to get Lampard back at full throttle. Ive not heard a single report about the benefits to us.

    The fact is, we have now played one game in 19 days. And that was at home.

    Many argue strongly for the official winter break. To be honest i can see both positive and negatives, but in terms of Fergie’s annual season strategy of starting slowly, gathering confidence, gaining a sense of momentum, and being an unstoppable force through Easter, this is surely a massive filip for us. (More …)

     
    • raymond 10:15 on December 23, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      they should have gone away for some warm weather training!

    • manutdot 09:01 on December 24, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      I think it is also known that we were suffering with flu through the camp and we would have had to field a weakened side vs chelsea. I cannot believe, as you point out, that not so long ago we were 5 points behind a chelsea team that looked unstoppable and the speed at which that changed. Top at Christmas and looking at past seasons we always come good after Christmas so here’s to a real good go at getting number 19!

  • cartelmike 12:34 on November 26, 2010 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: , , , , ,   

    Variety the spice of life? Or do MUFC need specialists for all occasions? 

    There’s a pattern emerging this season.

    It began to be habitual during the middle of last season, but now we’re seeing it clearly.

    United now are only involved in two types of games. There’s the game where we score in the dying minutes against the defensive teams. And there’s the free scoring, high drama games where we play teams that have a go at us. And that’s it.

    It’s beginning to get a little frustrating to look at an opposition team sheet and know exactly what will happen for the next 90 minutes. (More …)

     
    • Rob B 12:58 on November 26, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      I think this is a very valid point. It shows how football domestically has changed over the last few years…really since Chelsea became the big machine they are now. Fluidity is fantastic when you get to play a team that wants a pop at you, but its all gone a bit ‘Serie A from 1988′. However the fact is we wont be getting ourselves another Ronaldo anytime soon, so yes I agree a diminutive central midfield playmaker is needed. Van Der Vaart would have been perfect and its sickening to watch him at Spurs with what is the signing of the season for sure. I think Luca Modric would be excellent in our midfield rotating with Tom Cleverley. They would be perfect for a Post-Scholes United side. Aguero.. if he became available will be off to a Chelsea or a City I’m sure. (See David Silva for details) Defensive midfield wise I’m not so sure…don’t really think unless we could get an Essien type player (jury is out at how good Annan really is) then I’m happy with Fletcher and Carrick sitting. I know neither are your classic destroyer but they facilitate the system we play.

      As you commented Mike, I’m not so convinced as to how POOR United have been this season. We never get out of 3rd gear before Xmas as a rule and we are now 27 games unbeaten and joint top of the league. I think a January addition to the squad with no outgoings could be vital this season. In the past such mid season transfers never really worked (see Vida, Evra, Saha) but if we could get just ONE MORE creative player added to the midfield stock then we are gonna go very close in every competition.

  • cartelmike 09:08 on November 16, 2010 Permalink | Reply  

    TF Chronicles: The Celebration – An MUFC study 

    lee sharpe

    Celebrate good times.. COME ON ! Its a celebration.

    That moment..

    That amazing moment for any fan. It’s the winning goal. It’s the euphoric rush. It’s the scream. The fist-pump. The drop to the knees.

    We all have a different way of celebrating the winning goal. But then, so do the players. What does a players celebration tell us about them? Can we obtain any important info about their inner psyches by their own celebratory reactions? This week, The Faithful’s Mike Woods has teamed up with the famous psychoanalyst Sir Sigmund DuGout, and spent some time analysing our United heroes reactions to scoring.

    Let us begin. (More …)

     
  • cartelmike 16:28 on November 8, 2010 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: ,   

    TF Chronicles: Midfield Generals and Lightbulb Moments.. 

    Whilst watching the recent United v Spurs game, the camera cut unexpectedly to Darren Fletcher. It was a fairly typical Fletcher close-up. He was pushing his neck forward. His eyes were bulging. And he was screaming instructions at Rafael.

    I thought back to the team sheet, and particularly the offensive players:  Nani, Carrick, Park, Hernandez & Berbatov. An array of talent for sure. But vocal ? Galvanising ? Communicative ? Nope, none of them.

    Watching wave after wave of subsequent attacks i kept my eye on Darren. He never stopped orchestrating. Pulling strings. Screaming. The commentators never mentioned it. And, typically with TV coverage, the camera’s often lost him. Fletcher was dominant in that game. I watched it again that evening, and the nonsense around Nani’s goal deflected any opportunity for anyone to speak positively of Darren’s influence.

    Which leads me to my point. (More …)

     
    • Nikos 17:32 on November 8, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Very good article on the now loved Fletcher. Was given a torrid time by United fans earlier in his career (Fergie’s lovechild etc) – in fact until very recently indeed – but many now coming round to the idea that he is actually a very competent central midfielder. Darren has excelled in recent seasons and there were very early indications that he could well have the character (as you allude to), energy and athleticism, tactical nous and box to box potential to emulate some of the fantastic leaders /l egends that have graced our colours in years gone by – and yes that does include the peerless Roy Keane and Bryan Robson.

      Lets hope our fans can learn from this lesson, as we hear similar grumblings / reservations around some of our midfield talents; The likes of Gibson, Carrick and Park presently feeling the wrath of an OT crowd still uncomfortable with the “lack of spending on big names” – - despite the subtle procurement of the extremely talented duo of Hernandez and Smalling, and the astutely evolved squad bursting with young, raw talent.

    • luzhniki2008 17:34 on November 8, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      When he was at the club, Roy Keane used to give Fletch a hard time, Fletch has admitted. Clearly Keane could see the potential in Fletch as a youngster and didn’t want him to waste that talent.

    • philgatt 09:02 on November 9, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Brilliant post. Great to point out what Fletcher did vs Spurs, people might start to realise that he could really be the one we need to gee the players up when it’s needed.

      On another note, our seats are right where you sat for that Chelsea game, though my brother’s is 2nd row, and mine is 6th row. We always enjoy being so close to the action when we manage to make it to OT.

      Well done on a very good article.

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